Posts:
1,495
Registered:
4/24/07
|
|
|
|
Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 12:34 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
> Non-Degree'd
> COBOL types are no longer required and the job
> prospects are slim and getting close to none.
But if someone has 20+ years of COBOL experience why should they need a degree now? Besides how many schools in North America teach COBOL and RPG these days?
> z30000 .. As I mentioned yesterday, the bg's and
> hoapres will come out blasting and blaming age
> discrimination, jobs going to India. These types
> just can't compete in IT anymore, hence, their
> lengthy unemployment stints.
Maybe. Yet you must concede the laundry list of skills, specific products, and influx of a slave class have done nothing to help the situation. How in all that is holy can a 25 year old from India have the equivalent of 15 years professional experience in some skill-set mash-up? A degree from India should be treated as the equivalent of a 2-year trade school diploma and work experience discounted at 75% (10 years of claimed experience is only worth 2.5 years of actual experience) and NO INDIAN can be a reference for another Indian national.
|
|
Posts:
617
Registered:
5/9/08
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 12:37 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
"Keep yourself out of skillsets that are easily migrated over to India. ASP, .net, etc, are moving out of this country at a rapid pace, would not want to be pigeon-holed into those areas."
At least you acknowledge the trend that up to date skills are moving out.
I'm curious though what skills you'd consider safe?
If there are not enough safe jobs for skilled people to go around for everyone qualified, then it is fair to blame the situation itself rather than the people who find themselves in it. Sure one can compete within that environment, but we'll have to accept that some qualified people will lose out due to no fault of their own.
|
|
Posts:
604
Registered:
4/5/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 2:08 PM
in response to: Job Talk
|
|
|
>> I'm curious though what skills you'd consider safe?
Yes, qualified people will lose jobs. .NET, asp, Java, PL/SQL, developers in general will face more and more outsourcing which will create de-flation in wages.
You'll always have a need for "guru" types such as high end Java Architects, Network Config and Design, SAN Design/Implementation ... Projects have to be managed, hence, PM's, etc. Obviuosly, Intensive data and security related jobs aren't going overseas. Yet, the bg's and hoapres will argue, in their extreme negativity, that even Security Clearance related jobs will go over.
Outside of offshoring pure development to India, companies are trending towards extending their hours of support (oncall stuff, etc) by leveraging the difference in time zones.
It's a shame, but if you're a straight core-oriented developer, you may or may not have a problem going forward. What is completely overstated on these boards is the "cost" of outsourcing, etc. The cost of setting up shop/outsourcing to India is going up at a rapid pace and we are quickly approaching the law of diminished returns. When you hear India(n)s working for $8/hr over in India, that's pure garbage. Some India(n)s are actually going back to India for better compensation.
|
|
Posts:
6,421
Registered:
5/16/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 2:36 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
Companies are starting to offshore to the cheapest part of the planet. Eastern Europe and China are good candidates. I suspect that Latin America might also be a good contender for offshoring as well.
Also, India probably is close to the "critical mass" of being able to do software development. We don't have to import cheeseburger flippers into the US but simply have the cheeseburger shipped to the US
You might have a need for "gurus" but of course by definition NOT everybody is going to be a "guru". I am not even convinced that intensive data jobs are not going to be offshored at least from the banks that I have been talking to. Security clearance jobs are a small part of the IT employment picture.
Ironically, you gave the best reason to GET OUT of IT.
X jobs with X decreasing
Y people looking for those X jobs
Y > X
(Y - X ) people are going to be doing something BESIDES IT
|
|
Posts:
604
Registered:
4/5/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 2:44 PM
in response to: hoapres
|
|
|
All I really care about is keeping my IT profit engine going and it's right back to before the financial meltdown. Worry about YOUR skills and how YOU can fit it. 5000+ posts indicates that you're more interested bashing the field and there is MUCH more productive use of time than to set new "Board Posting Records"
|
|
Posts:
6,421
Registered:
5/16/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 2:48 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
>> All I really care about ... and it's right back to before the financial meltdown.
If you are that fortunate then you should be able to retire in a couple of years. Simply pick up assets and "ride out the storm". In a decade or so, the assets should generate enough income so you don't have to work.
|
|
Posts:
604
Registered:
4/5/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:07 PM
in response to: hoapres
|
|
|
I thoroughly enjoy what I do and it shows at client engagements. IT is still is very viable career with HUGE potential if you stay on top, hence, the "disgust" on the negativity of yourself and bg. Just because the two of you got stomped by the wave, there is no need to attempt to have all abandon IT. Some have done very well and will continue to do very well. There are jobs out there and many of us continue to land lucrative contracts. Worry about YOUR prospects, NOT others.
|
|
Posts:
6,421
Registered:
5/16/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:14 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
>> IT is still a very viable career with HUGE potential ...
The data doesn't back you up. Too much factual evidence of declining salaries and increasing IT unemployment make it pretty obvious that IT is NOT a "viable career". Of course that is assuming "viable career" includes people currently employed in it can stay in it.
Your prior post pretty much admits that it is not going to happen. A SELECT few make a "go of it" but the VAST MAJORITY don't. IT might end up like theoretical physics to some extent, Einstein never had employment problems but almost everybody else does.
|
|
Posts:
604
Registered:
4/5/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:26 PM
in response to: hoapres
|
|
|
>> IT is still a very viable career with HUGE potential ...
Typically, it's the unemployed that are the bashers.
|
|
Posts:
617
Registered:
5/9/08
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:29 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
11iAppsDBA,
"Yes, qualified people will lose jobs. .NET, asp, Java, PL/SQL, developers in general will face more and more outsourcing which will create de-flation in wages."
I don't think you answered which skills are "safe", but nevertheless I agree with every part of your response.
One thing will never change, being well connected far outweighs the skill sets in terms of lucrative compensation. I would wager that mediocre college students spending 50%+ of their time networking would consistently get more opportunities than students who spend 100% of their time improving their skills.
|
|
Posts:
5,377
Registered:
2/8/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 3:38 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
Situation: You're invited to speak at a HS career assembly. Those in the audience represent the 65% who want to go on to college. Would you recommend that a substantial number of those students pursue a BSCS, and thus a career in IT?
Situation: Your sons and\or daughters want to pursue a career in IT. Would you tell them that IT is a great choice of careers?
|
|
Posts:
6,421
Registered:
5/16/07
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 4:50 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
|
|
|
>> Typically, it's the unemployed that are the bashers.
Surprisingly NOT.
I know of LOTS of IT employed people that are telling their kids NOT to enter IT.
|
|
Posts:
31
Registered:
4/14/08
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 8:18 PM
in response to: hoapres
|
|
|
Employed network engineer here -- telling all of those thinking of going into IT to choose something else.
|
|
Posts:
23
Registered:
6/8/09
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 4:41 AM
in response to: bg6638
|
|
|
I hope that you learn how to use a spell checker ...............
bg6638,
Did the spell checker save programmers from H1B visas?
You need more strategic education to compete! Moreover, if you are fine, why do you think that someone else would not be? You try to keep people away from IT and have the opportunity to land a piece of contract/job. Let Idians discourage Americans to lead in High Tech!
|
|
Posts:
97
Registered:
7/15/08
|
|
|
|
Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 7:18 AM
in response to: hoapres
|
|
|
> >> Typically, it's the unemployed that are the
> bashers.
>
> Surprisingly NOT.
>
> I know of LOTS of IT employed people that are telling
> their kids NOT to enter IT.
You got that right. I am unemployed right now but I have been giving my "stay away from IT" lecture for 9 years now, and I was gainfully employed all those years. Unemployed vs. employed in IT is temporary anyway. I saw the writing on the wall after Y2K and started telling my kids to stay away from this dying field.
I attended many (10 or more) college fairs, and usually the IT tour has 0-1 kids, while the liberal arts and healthcare tours are overcrowded. The only caveat is with liberal arts, graduate school is needed but all of the kids I spoke to know this and are very savvy in their choices: studying abroad, taking "international conflict management" classes and learning languages like Farsi, Arabic, etc. These kids are not wasting their education as many have said, maybe this is at the Tier1 schools but this is what I have seen and I am on the front lines with college bound HS seniors.
|
|
|
Legend
|
|
Helpful Answer
|
|
Correct Answer
|
|
