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603
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4/5/07
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 8:02 AM
in response to: hoapres
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>> I know of LOTS of IT employed people that are telling their kids NOT to enter IT.
Agreed. I would not suggest IT as a career for my kids. BUT, if you are the best at something, you will do very well, even if it's a "hot dog" salesman with an entrepreneurial spirit. As for myself, I would choose IT again. There are just so many unqualified people in IT that it's pretty easy to shine.
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579
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5/9/08
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 11:31 AM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
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11iAppsDBA,
"Agreed. I would not suggest IT as a career for my kids. BUT, if you are the best at something, you will do very well..."
...With the caveat that one has to have the right connections.
"There are just so many unqualified people in IT that it's pretty easy to shine."
True, it's not that hard to be above average or even in the 95%-tile. However not everyone gets the equal opportunity to prove themselves. This is especially true for those us who enter our careers underemployed and have been pigeonholed ever since.
I wanted to work on graphics engines for the longest time. I was really good at it too, and even put out some "3d graphics demos". The companies I applied to however were not interested because all they saw was my web development experience. In fact one employer even said that I would not have made the cut for a regular programming job with my background if it wasn't for the recommendation of a mutual friend.
My interests have changed a little since then, but looking back I still have the utmost confidence in the skills I had - I was never given the opportunity to prove them to an employer that could appreciate them.
I can understand why someone who gets pulled into their dream job right out of college and have had an easy time might think they are the best, but without giving everyone an equal opportunity they'll never actually know. It's partly about skill, partly a numbers game, and mostly connections.
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Posts:
4,011
Registered:
2/11/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 12:07 PM
in response to: 11iAppsDBA
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"As for myself, I would choose IT again"
You keep forgetting that you stumbled into Oracle Applications; it wasn't a deliberate career move.
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Posts:
690
Registered:
8/20/07
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 12:09 PM
in response to: USCitizen
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I can't think of any other field where you have to be the top 1% just for a measly $80K-$100K job? And where if you happen to have the skills that are in vogue for 6-12 months; you act like you're automatically a genius! 
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Posts:
4,011
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2/11/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 12:28 PM
in response to: carlgt1
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> I can't think of any other field where you have to be
> the top 1% just for a measly $80K-$100K job? And
> where if you happen to have the skills that are in
> vogue for 6-12 months; you act like you're
> automatically a genius!
Well said.
100K; what a joke when you live in a major metropolitan area.
I was just told by a former MIS Director from Salomon that they host 10 H1-Bs to a room in a nearby hotel; I never mentioned the scenario.
He was talking out of frustration that he was forced to hire and train Indians who were obviously incompetent and that he had no idea it was part of the process to lay him off.
He said an American can't compete against a $10.00 an hour foreigner.
Yes, I typed $10.00/Hour.
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579
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5/9/08
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 1:36 PM
in response to: carlgt1
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carlgt1,
"I can't think of any other field where you have to be the top 1% just for a measly $80K-$100K job?"
I know people in my field who make more than that, but it's never for their technical skills. Most have given up programming and moved into corporate political roles, a strategy which paid off well for them. Personally, I'd rather be more technical though.
I don't actually have a problem with them making more on the managerial side. However I do have a problem when they make $140K and I have to compensate to fix their mistakes, only for them to get all the credit. It's funny how that works.
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Posts:
690
Registered:
8/20/07
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 1:52 PM
in response to: Job Talk
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no I mean for the average, mundane technical job paying $80-$100K you have to prove you're a "top-1%er" in a long grueling tedious technical interview etc. I can't count how many boring dead-end places I've interviewed at and they've all sworn they had the top people in the world and put me through a grueling interview etc. I don't think there's any other field that compares to that. Thankfully I have been gainfully employed & am not desperate; but I just have to sit back and wonder about what a weird career IT is. My buddies are all in humdrum business careers & half-assed biz-degrees & grades & nobody tries to be a "top 1%" and they're making good dough etc.
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Posts:
288
Registered:
5/2/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 2:48 PM
in response to: bg6638
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> Situation: You're invited to speak at a HS career
> assembly. Those in the audience represent the 65%
> who want to go on to college. Would you recommend
> that a substantial number of those students pursue a
> BSCS, and thus a career in IT?
>
> Situation: Your sons and\or daughters want to pursue
> a career in IT. Would you tell them that IT is a
> great choice of careers?
No, on both counts! But the majority of members on this board are ALREADY in IT, so you're just beating a dead horse with this 'IT is dead' nonsense. Why don't you join a forum for college students?
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Posts:
4,011
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2/11/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 3:06 PM
in response to: bbtr
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"Why don't you join a forum for college students"
I believe I asked you about two months ago if you knew any college forums after you posted a like comment to me.
Do you know of any?
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Posts:
288
Registered:
5/2/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 3:53 PM
in response to: USCitizen
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> I believe I asked you about two months ago if you
> knew any college forums after you posted a like
> comment to me.
> Do you know of any?
I don't remember ever having this discussion. Anyway, you can take a look at the "College Confidential" forum.
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10
Registered:
3/14/09
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 7:36 PM
in response to: cadman
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What about an A.S. in C.S. ? u know, one that actually makes u take 4 calculus courses along with several programming. is that worthless?
what if you have 7 years exp with it?
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Posts:
6,383
Registered:
5/16/07
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 11:23 AM
in response to: grapico
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An AA degree is totally worthless in this dismal IT market. You might be extremely lucky should you know someone that gets you a job with 7 years experience. Unfortunately, the vast majority of jobs require a 4 year BS degree and in some cases even a low level help desk job requires a MS degree. Some employers insist on top 10 schools like Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, ...
WHY??
Because the IT job market is GLUTTED with LOTS of qualified people applying for every job. Employers can be extremely selective.
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1,342
Registered:
4/24/07
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Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 12:20 PM
in response to: grapico
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> What about an A.S. in C.S. ? u know, one that
> actually makes u take 4 calculus courses along with
> several programming. is that worthless?
> what if you have 7 years exp with it?
An AA/AS degree is a good starting point but you will need to continue onto a BA/BS in some field afterwards. Think of the AA/AS as an academic stepping stone on a path you must travel regardless of most fields these days. Find the least expensive means of earning the credit hours towards the AA/AS including CLEPs and DSSTs. With an AA/AS in CS you might be able to pick up contract work through a small consulting firm. However, there are no guarantees in life other than death.
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Posts:
6,383
Registered:
5/16/07
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 1:51 PM
in response to: idm
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>> With an AA/AS ...pick up contract work
Extremely unlikely.
Of course the other concern would be the very poor return on investment for getting a BS in an IT related field. The job market is so glutted with people looking for work that some are working for equity only. IT salaries continue to drop and OP would be better off from a financial point of view to get out of IT
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281
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7/8/08
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Re: Associates Degree really count?
Posted:
Nov 9, 2009 3:43 AM
in response to: Guest
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> if one is willing to move.
i moved from az to dc for my last job. i went into 30k debt because they wouldnt pay for my relocation. because of that my credit score has gone to shat and unless i start making 80k a year, ill be in debt forever, and i cant buy a house, get my car fix, get health/dental insurance or do much of anything, because as soon as i buy me a $1 cheezeburger from mcdonalds i owe my bank $20. so screw the move unless THEY pay. and even if they pay the move id move somewhere where its teaming with whatever field im in.
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Legend
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Helpful Answer
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Correct Answer
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