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4
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11/5/09
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Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 10:50 PM
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First off, hello everyone, and thanks in advance for any salient advice.
(and apologies in advance for the lack of capitalization in the below post, which I pasted from an earlier time elsewhere online)
when i was hired at my job last fall, out of ignorance/naivete, i lowballed (lol, great image) my salary requirements by kind of a lot, got offered the job, accepted, and emailed them that i realized i had asked for the very very lowest salary in that field, and asked if they were open to discussing a higher salary. they were irritated but suggested i make an offer, one that they wouldn't commit to meeting. at that point, i took the high road mainly out of fear that they'd withdraw their offer, and wrote an effective email basically stating that it was more important to me to instill trust and confidence, that i'd honor my asking price, blah blah.
so, here i am 12 months later-- i really like the job, and after the first few months of getting the hang of it, i'm doing a good job, and people are happy with my work. all my monthly performance review meetings are complimentary.
i decided to wait until my yearly review to ask for a raise. the company gives (i think) 5% raises annually, but in my case, that would be ridiculous. i've not settled on a number yet, but i'll ask for around $60k (i'm a technical editor and writer, and here: http://www.bls.gov/oes/2008/may/oes_39580.htm lists the median editor salary at about $51k and the median writer salary at $70). this is a big pay increase, but i feel that i've honored my starting salary request for a year, and that now i am delivering average-above average product (my services in the marketplace) and therefore ask for a salary that reflects the market average.
ps- profit sharing (obviously) varies from year to year, and is really nice but not guaranteed, and the owners tell us never to budget for it/assume we're going to get it, so i feel i can take that same approach in my raise request- state that i can't assume it will be a constant.
so, what do you folks think?
basically, do you think they will respect me for having honored my naively low starting salary request and therefore be more apt to honor my salary increase request later this fall (they're both pretty nice guys and the company is not very beurocratic at all, so they are definitely able to make this decision with going through multiple channels/divisions/etc.), or, worst case, will they have lost respect for me due to my working for a lower salary than most of the other folks there (don't know anyone else's salary but this is a pretty healthy business economically) and expect me to accept the 5% raise?
also, if you were in my shoes, how would you go about asking for it/making your case?
finally, can anyone offer me asuggestion for a more updated, definitive site to determine salaries in Raleigh-Durham, NC for editors and technical writers? i found this:
http://monster.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?Zipcode=&Metrocode=141&Statecode=NC&Metro=Raleigh-Durham&Geo=Raleigh-Durham,%20NC&Search=&geocode=&jobtitle=Editor&jobcode=CM02000009&narrowdesc=Printing%20and%20Publishing&narrowcode=CM03&r=mnstr_swzttsbtn_psr&p=MNSTR42X
which seems to be current. i don't understand why the curve peaks before the median amount of $53,731 though.
thanks!
Message was edited by: pepperg
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Posts:
579
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5/9/08
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 12:38 AM
in response to: pepperg
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pepperg,
They're not going to reward you if you take no action. So if you are unhappy with your salary then you need to ask.
The hard part is anticipating your employer's actions.
Try to read the signs, are they on a hiring / firing spree? Have they been bringing in lower cost labor, or planning to do so?
You can be pretty certain (if they're even interested) that they will counter-offer somewhere in between your current and asking price. If so, how do you intend to react? It's important not to be stubborn, to that end one trick is to give them a range initially and then turn the table. They're less likely this way to try and negotiate below your asking price, but it's not a guarantee.
Take note that the $70k salary you quoted is the mean. Clicking into the details shows a median salary for Technical Writer of $61,620.
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Posts:
39
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9/23/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 7:37 AM
in response to: pepperg
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I would tread carefully here - these median numbers may not be updated to reflect the current reality. 1 minute ago just found out the "official" unemployment rate is 10.2 percent.
I've been out of work going on month number 6 and I am a Project Manager with an IT background - Master's degree in Project Management and a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science.
Obviously, do what you are comfortable with.
Good luck!
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1,342
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4/24/07
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Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM
in response to: pepperg
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Are you able to clearly document examples of work product or cost savings on your projects that would justify you getting an increase in excess of the standard 5% at your firm? I do not know your present salary but you want to take the median salary from the BLS with a bucket of salt. There is probably room to negotiate with your manager if you are able to present a business case. Do you have technical skills in addition to your technical writing experience that has been useful or beneficial to the firm? Sometimes we take lower pay to get into a firm in hopes of moving up or into a better position. In your case it sounds as though you have a position you enjoy despite the self-imposed lowball starting salary. Negotiate with your manager and be able to back up your value proposition to the team, department and firm. It might be possible to negotiate a 10% increase if you can demonstrate a quantifiable efficiency you have implemented.
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4
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11/5/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 2:17 PM
in response to: Job Talk
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Thanks JT,
The company is doing well, and is expanding (doubling the space, hiring new staff).
What I want to have my salary be on par with the average in my field- about 55K for an editor.
What is the difference between mean and median salary?
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11/5/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 2:32 PM
in response to: idm
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A 10% salary increase would still leave me almost 15K beneath the average salary for my field. In other words, if I got a 10% raise each year, I'd never catch up to what the average salary is for an editor in my area.
Basically, I am going to ask for a one time "do over" in a sense...a chance for a 1 time salary renegotiation to put my salary on par with others in the company and with that of my field. It might be naive of me to think this, but given that they like my performance and having me as a part of the company (a smallish company, about 30 people), I feel that such a thing is warranted.
I know that I am succeeding at the job I was hired for: to assist the only other editor there (senior staff member to me, junior staff member) and make her life easier. She has made this clear. Other employees have also spoken well of me, in terms of me having helped them. I can point to some specific accomplishments, such as editing effectively, improving the accuracy/lowering the error rate of our documents, creating some help documents, getting work done on time, working sometimes from home or on the weekends if need be, asking for additional work if I don't have any, doing IEEE training, etc.
So, I am really hoping and feeling justified in asking for a substantial raise this one time, to get me on par with my field and with everyone else at the company.
Message was edited by: pepperg
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Posts:
579
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 10:05 AM
in response to: pepperg
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pepperg,
"What is the difference between mean and median salary?"
Let's say there are 5 technical writers (pulling numbers at random)
$25k $40k $50k $60k $100k
The median is helpful in determining the most typical salary for the set. In particular, it's oblivious to outliers which can significantly distort the number especially when there is a great deal of variance between the raw numbers.
The median above is $50k
The mean is $55k
Imagine a data set where the variance is much larger, lets replace the $100k by $1M.
Now the median is still $50k
The mean is $235K.
You can immediately see that this mean does not give a true reflection of the typical incomes, because the positive outliers have too much influence. Because of this effect, you should always look at medians when looking for the typical numbers.
It's not unusual to see the top 1% taking 40% of the total wealth across the whole population.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
"A 10% salary increase would still leave me almost 15K beneath the average salary for my field."
This is why people become job hoppers, they force employers to compete and can often make more that way. This is all the more true since pensions and long term incentives for staying have generally been wiped out.
The problem today is that the market is strongly favoring the employers, so it's hard to get leverage. You should know that it would be more than a little unusual for you to get a 15% raise (even if you were undervalued from the beginning). I'd like to see you get it though, good luck.
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31
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4/14/08
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 7, 2009 9:07 PM
in response to: pepperg
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I'm betting that you get no more than 10% and if you force the issue that you are unemployed. The boss may even come out and offer 10% before you say a word and explain that your getting double the average raise and how happy you should be. And next year you'll be back to 5% with no other adjustment. I've never been with an employer who ever appropriately adjusted salaries after being hired in at a relatively low rate. The only exception would be some type of promotion with a different salary range.
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4,027
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2/11/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 12:13 AM
in response to: pepperg
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You will be fired.
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11/5/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 1:34 AM
in response to: InMichigan
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That's depressing--so, f'ing up during the initial salary discussion will haunt me at this particular job for as long as I'm there, i.e., I'll never be able to earn a salary close to my co-workers or those in my field at this particular business? My intuition says that this might not be case, though I am not necessarily expecting it to happen overnight. We'll see.
"You will be fired." Hah. Way to go there with the reply.
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 3:05 AM
in response to: pepperg
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I presume you're not in NYC where technical writers are a dime a dozen.
It also depends on your industry.
If you push in a common industry you will be fired.
I hope they appreciate your work and offer you a decent increase on their own; that would promote good will since they're getting bang for their buck.
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 11:45 AM
in response to: pepperg
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count me with the pessimists, but they probably won't fire you - that would make it too easy on you.
still, what the heck, give them a shot.
but this is just the wrong economy in which to hope for generosity - even of spirit.
if they do well by you, please post - and then, I will give twenty bucks to the next panhandler I see. or, not.
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11/18/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 18, 2009 9:11 PM
in response to: pepperg
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Just my opinion, but considering the economy, I'd be happy with a raise period. You have to realize there are 150 people probably fighting for that exact job. And many people will do it for less. Just my opinion, but before you jump your guns, take a look around. Right now could you honestly do better?
ETA: The last several tech writing/editor gigs I've looked at have been way below salary for regular jobs of this nature. I have been tech writing and editing, doing web work and IT for years, and in this economy, I have been unemployed for the longest I have ever been in my entire life. That's 25 years of working in the industry.
Just saying proceed with caution.
Message was edited by: Rondata
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 23, 2009 1:17 AM
in response to: pepperg
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> That's depressing--so, f'ing up during the initial
> salary discussion will haunt me at this particular
> job for as long as I'm there, i.e., I'll never be
> able to earn a salary close to my co-workers or those
> in my field at this particular business?
Not necessarily. But obviously you don't want to look for another job for a few years, so there's no point in asking too strongly just yet. When you feel confident that you're ready and able to find a new job at the salary you want, that's when you should ask. Don't threaten to leave under any circumstances, though.
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990
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1/17/09
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Re: Advice wanted: asking for a large raise at my upcoming year-end review
Posted:
Nov 24, 2009 5:08 AM
in response to: USCitizen
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> You will be fired.
LOL. Blunt much?
Seriously (as someone already suggested), the way to get back on track is to get a promotion. The OP may need to create a case for a new position that OP can immediately fill.
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Legend
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Helpful Answer
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Correct Answer
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